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NOTE:
Copyright in this transcript is reserved to the Crown. The reproduction,
except under authority from the Crown, of the contents of this transcript for
any purpose other than the conduct of these proceedings is prohibited.
SKB:
CAT: D1
THE
SUPREME COURT
OF
NEW
COMMON
LAW DIVISION
20128/06
‑ JOHN WILSON v STATE DEBT RECOVERY OFFICE & STATE OF NEW SOUTH WALES
20258/06
‑ JOHN WILSON v THE CROWN SOLICITOR
20162/06
‑ ERIC ABRAKAM JURY v CRAIG NORMAN & STATE OF NEW SOUTH WALES
APPLICATIONS
LIST
Plaintiffs self‑represented
Mr
R Weinstein for the defendants
WEINSTEIN: If your Honour will
see me?
HIS
HONOUR: Yes. Mr Wilson?
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: I'm afraid you cannot have one.
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: Do you have any other applications?
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: Very well. Remove him please.
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: Mr Wilson, go. When you have a proper application I will hear what you
have to say.
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: There are rules in Court.
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: We have real matters.
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: Just remove him.
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: All those who are wearing slogans would you please leave the Court. You
may return when you leave the slogans. This is not a case for a political
campaign.
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: Please go.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: We are asking for justice, your
Honour. we are asking for trial by jury which is
justice. He has a right to a trial by jury, John has a
right to trial by jury.
HIS
HONOUR: I have litigants in this Court who have real cases.
PLAINTIFF
SHORT
ADJOURNMENT
WEINSTEIN:
Might I assist your Honour? There are three related matters before your Honour.
Two concern Mr Wilson and one concerns Mr Eric Jury
who is in Court. The three matters are similar in that we seek a dismissal of
the proceedings in each of the matters.
There
was at least one application by Mr Wilson in a formal application in that he
had filed a requisition for a jury in the matter of
HIS
HONOUR: He asked ‑ that was the first thing he said.
WEINSTEIN:
It might be simplest, if your Honour wishes to proceed
this way, to proceed with the matter of Mr Jury's case because he is in Court
and it wouldn't be a long matter, your Honour.
HIS
HONOUR: Very well but before I do so I have already mentioned to members of the
public that a Court of law is not a place for political slogans. If you wish
the law to be changed then the place for your slogans is Parliament, not a
Court of law. It follows therefore that I must ask you please to go whilst you
are wearing those T‑shirts ("It's a Democracy, Trial by Jury").
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: You can't ask us what to wear, your Honour. Can you show me
where that's in legislation, please?
HIS
HONOUR: If you wish to hear the proceedings in a courtroom, and members of the
public are entitled to do so provided they remain ordered and quiet, you may
return without those T‑shirts. If you do not go‑ -
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: I am just an ordinary citizen. I am in ignorance as to what's
going on. I would like to know where the legislation says you can go ahead and
order that to take place. You would have to throw all the people out of
HIS
HONOUR: I have an inherent right as a Judge of the Supreme Court of New South
Wales to order the proceedings in my courtroom.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: We have inherent power as citizens, your Honour.
HIS
HONOUR: If you do not go –
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: We are not leaving.
HIS
HONOUR: ‑‑ I will have you charged with contempt in the face of the
Court. I will have you arrested and I will have you placed in custody.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: Go ahead.
HIS
HONOUR: I am ordering you to go.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: We are here to bring justice to the system, your Honour,
justice to the system.
HIS
HONOUR: Officer.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: We are asking for justice, your
Honour.
HIS
HONOUR: Officer, please.
SHORT
ADJOURNMENT
HIS
HONOUR: Mr Weinstein, you were mentioning the matter of Mr Jury?
WEINSTEIN:
That is so.
HIS
HONOUR: Mr Jury, take a seat at the bar table
PLAINTIFF
JURY: I would much rather stand up.
HIS
HONOUR: Very well, if you are more comfortable.
WEINSTEIN:
I have a notice of motion filed on the 6
June this year seeking orders generally pursuant to Part 13, rule 13.4 to have
the proceedings dismissed and in the alternative have the statement of claim
struck out. Can I file in Court an
affidavit of Elizabeth Mee, my instructing solicitor?
AFFIDAVIT
OF ELIZABETH MEE FILED IN COURT.
HIS
HONOUR: Is this matter set down for hearing today?
WEINSTEIN:
It was.
PLAINTIFF
JURY: Where is the jury?
HIS
HONOUR: I am going to ask you in a moment. Would you just wait for a moment?
WEINSTEIN:
Directions were made your Honour about six weeks ago to file and serve an
affidavit. They have been back before the Registrar today so they could be
heard before your Honour.
HIS
HONOUR: Mr Jury are you ready to be heard?
PLAINTIFF
JURY: No, I am not ready. Where is the jury? I have asked for a jury. I am
nearly 80 years of age and I want a jury to hear this matter.
HIS
HONOUR: If I refuse a jury?
PLAINTIFF
JURY: I will walk out of the Court.
HIS
HONOUR: Would you be ready to proceed?
PLAINTIFF
JURY: I am not ready to proceed without a jury.
HIS
HONOUR: Is there anything more you wish to say?
PLAINTIFF
JURY: There is nothing more I wish to say. I just want a jury, that's all,
which I am entitled to. Are you going to refuse me a jury?
HIS
HONOUR: Yes, I am.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: You are breaking the law. You are a criminal. You know the
Act.
HIS
HONOUR: You will need to be quiet.
PLAINTIFF
JURY: I am going to walk out of this Court if you are going to refuse me a jury
and I'm going to have you charged.
FOR
HIS HONOUR'S JUDGMENT SEE SEPARATE TRANSCRIPT
PLAINTIFF
JURY: That's abominable. I have heard enough. The Privy Council appointed you
an authority.
HIS
HONOUR: Mr Jury –
PLAINTIFF
JURY: You are a fraud and a liability, Justice Adams.
FOR
THE CONTINUATION OF HIS HONOUR'S JUDGMENT SEE SEPARATE TRANSCRIPT
HIS
HONOUR: What is the particular legislative –
WEINSTEIN:
I hand your Honour a document setting out my submissions. Your Honour sees at
pages 7 and 8 it sets out the Local Court Act. Might I tell your Honour this, that I tried to give Mr Jury copies of my submissions
outside the Court and he wouldn't take them.
FOR
THE CONTINUATION OF HIS HONOUR'S JUDGMENT SEE SEPARATE TRANSCRIPT
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: You did not give him a right to a jury which he has a right
to.
HIS
HONOUR: Sit down.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: I am taller when I am standing.
HIS
HONOUR: That is true. You will either leave the Court or sit down.
HIS
HONOUR: Mr Weinstein, that leaves us with the problem of Mr Wilson's case.
WEINSTEIN:
That is correct. There are two of them. I am not sure quite how to proceed in
the circumstances?
HIS
HONOUR: Is Mr Wilson outside the Court?
(Plaintiff
HIS
HONOUR: Mr Wilson, I have refused your application for a jury. Do you wish to
be heard on the substance of the matter as to whether or not your statements of
claim should be struck out?
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: You have made that point.
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: Mr Wilson, do you wish to be heard?
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: There are other matters and I propose to proceed with them and I will
return to yours.
WEINSTEIN:
Would your Honour give me a not before marking?
HIS
HONOUR: Not before 12.15.
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: I intend to proceed according to the powers given to me by the
jurisdiction of
PLAINTIFF
HIS
HONOUR: I am moving to the next matter
PLAINTIFF
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: Absolutely, and the people will uphold that.
MATTER
STOOD DOWN IN THE LIST.
(Plaintiff
HIS
HONOUR: The transcript should note it is now 21 minutes past 12 and I set this
matter down for hearing at 12.15. Mr Wilson was in the Court and I do not doubt
that he heard me set that time for the hearing of this application.
WEINSTEIN:
There are two matters left. The first one is
HIS
HONOUR: What's the number of that one?
WEINSTEIN:
20128/2006. There was a notice of motion filed on the
AFFIDAVIT
OF ELIZABETH MEE SWORN
HIS
HONOUR: What's the actual name of the Appeal Act?
WEINSTEIN:
An appeal from?
HIS
HONOUR: Under the Crimes (Local Courts Appeal and Review) Act.
WEINSTEIN:
Paragraph 17.
FOR
HIS HONOUR'S JUDGMENT SEE SEPARATE TRANSCRIPT
WEINSTEIN:
Does your Honour refuse the relief to have the proceedings dismissed, I am
assuming.
HIS
HONOUR: The reason why they want it dismissed is that it seems to me where
there is an abuse of process I should simply strike it out. It's an abuse of
the Court to commence the proceedings.
WEINSTEIN:
I am only mindful of this, your Honour, if the pleading –
HIS
HONOUR: You want a res judicata,
is that the issue?
WEINSTEIN:
I am mindful if your Honour dismisses the pleading it may be that we are back
here.
HIS
HONOUR: Yes, I see the point.
FOR
THE CONTINUATION OF HIS HONOUR'S JUDGMENT SEE SEPARATE TRANSCRIPT
HIS
HONOUR: I am not sure that the form of the order ultimately matters.
WEINSTEIN:
Let me say that the next place for Mr Wilson would be in the Court of Appeal.
Does your Honour make the same costs orders in those matters?
HIS
HONOUR: Yes, the same costs orders. That brings us then to the second matter.
WEINSTEIN:
Your Honour that is a matter against the Crown
Solicitor himself. The number is 20258/06.
HIS
HONOUR: I have those now.
WEINSTEIN:
When the matter was before Registrar Howe this morning I told the Registrar
that I wanted to proceed on a motion today without any evidence, as I am
entitled to do, and the Registrar asked Mr Wilson if he proposed filing any
evidence or he had a desire to do so and Mr Wilson said no. I move on my motion
today. The motion was filed on the
FOR
HIS HONOUR'S JUDGMENT SEE SEPARATE TRANSCRIPT
SHORT
ADJOURNMENT
LUNCHEON
ADJOURNMENT
UPON
RESUMPTION
(John
Peter Bauskis and Peter Rutherford brought into
court.)
HIS
HONOUR: Gentlemen, I see that you are still wearing that t‑shirt and I
take it that is intended to be an act of defiance, or would you prefer an
opportunity to remove it now?
HIS
HONOUR: The law in this court is that you remove it. It was plainly worn in
association with the application being made in this court for trial by jury in
an attempt to intimidate the court into making those orders and that is why
they should not have been worn. Furthermore, they are political slogans and a
court of law is not the place for political slogans. Do you intend to remove
your t-shirt or not?
BAUSKIS:
No.
HIS
HONOUR: And you?
HIS
HONOUR: I will take that as a no. Both of you refused to obey the court's order
to leave the court whilst you were wearing the t‑shirt stating
"Trial by Jury is Democracy" in large letters and one of you
violently resisted attempts by Sheriff's officers to induce you to leave, and
when attempts were made to arrest you, in the course of so doing part of the
courtroom was damaged and officers were injured. That person, I think it is
alleged, was Mr Peter Rutherford.
In
relation to John Peter Bauskis, it is alleged that
the court, having ordered that he could not remain in court whilst wearing the
t‑shirt containing the words in large letters, "Trial by Jury is
Democracy", you refused to leave the court and refused to obey the lawful
directions of a Sheriff's officer to do so.
Now,
you have been I think in the cells since, I suppose it would be in the order of
about
On
the other hand, if you apologise for your conduct I will not take the matter
any further and will desist from charging you. Would you like to have time to
consider your situation?
BAUSKIS:
I don't need to apologise for anything.
HIS
HONOUR: What do you say, Mr Bauskis?
BAUSKIS:
I have not broken the law or done anything wrong.
HIS
HONOUR: Do you wish to apologise, Mr Bauskis?
HIS
HONOUR: I am sorry, you are Mr Rutherford, are you?
HIS
HONOUR: Mr Rutherford, do you wish to apologise?
HIS
HONOUR: I see. Well, the answer to that question then is no. Very well, would
you please stand, Mr Rutherford.
The
court having ordered, Peter Rutherford, you have remained in court whilst
wearing a t‑shirt containing the words in large letters, "Trial by
Jury is Democracy", did refuse to leave the court and voluntarily resisted
attempts by Sheriff's officers to induce you to leave and when attempts were
made to arrest you, in the course of so doing part of the courtroom was damaged
and officers were injured. Do you wish to plead guilty or not guilty?
HIS
HONOUR: The plea of not guilty is entered.
HIS
HONOUR: I need recorded—
HIS
HONOUR: I understand, and I have a power to enter a plea and the plea‑
HIS
HONOUR: The matter is beyond argument. I have this power and I propose to use
it.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: If you enter a plea, do you propose to act for him?
HIS
HONOUR: I will deal with who can act for him in a moment.
John
Peter Bauskis, the court having ordered that he
should not remain in court whilst wearing a t‑shirt containing the words
in large letters, "Trial by Jury is Democracy" did refuse to leave
the court and refused a lawful direction to leave made by the officers of the
Sheriff. How do you plead, are you guilty or not guilty?
BAUSKIS:
I am not pleading anything.
HIS
HONOUR: Enter a plea of not guilty.
BAUSKIS:
I am a sovereign person, you have no rights over me.
HIS
HONOUR: You are both in custody.
BAUSKIS:
Illegally.
HIS
HONOUR: I think it is imperative that you obtain legal advice and I am prepared
–
BAUSKIS:
For what?
HIS
HONOUR: I am prepared to consider whether or not you should be granted bail. Do
you seek bail?
BAUSKIS:
I seek nothing. This court has no jurisdiction. I would like to apply for a
jury myself.
HIS
HONOUR: I think you should really consider whether you wish to remain in
custody or, having been charged, whether you should seek bail.
BAUSKIS:
I have not done anything wrong. Why should I seek bail?
HIS
HONOUR: I suggest you seek bail. I am not in a position to consider whether you
should remain in custody or not.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: You can't judge in your own court.
BAVSKIS:
In your own cause.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: Can I make a comment?
HIS
HONOUR: Who are you?
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: I am supporting these two men. They have come here in good
faith. They believe in the principles of trial by jury. They have never
entertained the idea of breaking any law. They have come here to support Mr
Wilson and they do not –
HIS
HONOUR: I'm sorry, I think what you are saying is you are expressing an opinion
about the legitimacy of the charge against them.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: Yes.
HIS
HONOUR: Yes, I understand that but I am afraid we have passed that for the
moment. I am not going to listen to submissions on whether or not it is
appropriate that they should be charged or if it is appropriate whether or not
they should have bail and the extent to which these proceedings will be
adjourned.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: You still have no authority.
HIS
HONOUR: If you interrupt again you will be removed.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: You have no authority to do that.
HIS
HONOUR: You should understand that arrangements can be made to give you legal
aid if you wish to obtain legal advice.
BAUSKIS:
We have broken no law.
HIS
HONOUR: If you do not wish to obtain legal advice, that is entirely a matter
for you, but I would urge you to seriously consider obtaining legal advice.
Now,
I come to the question of bail. If I do not grant you bail, you will remain in
custody until such time as I am in a position to deal with you.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: You can't judge in their cause.
BAUSKIS:
There is a due process of law.
HIS
HONOUR: It is precisely that rule I am applying to you.
BAUSKIS:
We have no rights. You have taken all our rights from us.
BAUSKIS:
You are the one breaking the law by not granting us a trial by jury.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: Mr Adams, you are behaving in a very dis‑supportive
manner and totally unfair and despotic.
HIS
HONOUR: Please, enough is enough. I am behaving according to law.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: It is the people's court room.
HIS
HONOUR: I will not be interrupted.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: People will –
HIS
HONOUR: Please go.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: You step back, don't you lay a hand on me.
HIS
HONOUR: I said, go.
UNIDENTIFIED
MEMBER OF PUBLIC: I can assure you it is not the last you will hear of this, Mr
Adams.
(Unidentified
member of public removed from court room)
BAUSKIS:
Why do you defy the Crown?
HIS
HONOUR: I will have you removed also.
Mr
Rutherford and Mr Bauskis, if you are persons with
permanent places of abode and you are prepared to enter into an agreement to
abide by the conditions of bail which essentially require you to attend on this
court on the date set, I will grant bail. Do you wish to apply for bail?
BAUSKIS:
No I don't.
HIS
HONOUR: Do you wish to apply for bail?
HIS
HONOUR: Is that a "no"?
BAUSKIS:
That's what we are here for.
HIS
HONOUR: This matter is adjourned until
FURTHER
UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER OF PUBLIC: What did our fathers fight two World Wars for ~
to have fascism prevail.
HIS
HONOUR: The rule of law –
ABOVE
UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER OF PUBLIC: It says in the Australian Constitution every
Australian is entitled to a trial by jury in any action, any action. Why do you
defy the Constitution?
HIS
HONUR: The court is now adjourned.
ABOVE
UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER OF PUBLIC: How dare you defy the Constitution.
o0o